Are they any Christians???

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Re: Are they any Christians???

Postby Forever for Him 2003 » Fri May 07, 2021 2:40 pm

God is Omniscient so yes He knows all things but I think there's something you're forgetting it's called free will God gives every person a choice to do what they want in this world he knows what that choice is going to be but then he still lets them make their own choices. He provided a way to come to Him. But He'll never force them to choose for Him.
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Re: Are they any Christians???

Postby cacahuate86 » Fri May 07, 2021 3:14 pm

Forever for Him 2003 wrote:
cacahuate86 wrote:
Forever for Him 2003 wrote:Yes very good thing to bond over!😂. I believe the world, Universe and all life began 6,000-7,000 yrs ago give or take 1,000 or 2,000 yrs. What about you?
There is nothing to belive. If we have observable, measurable data we already know. Our universe is 13.8 billion years old, the Earth is 4.54 billion years old, and life on Earth started at least 3.465 billion years ago.
Six Evidences of a Young Earth
[...]
the scientific evidence agrees!
it really doesn't.

@Allie
See, this is what I mean. People just copy & pasting stuff from random websites. No 'author'of this article anywhere found on the website. Just a button where you're asked to 'donate'
Forever for Him 2003 wrote:God is Omniscient so yes He knows all things but I think there's something you're forgetting it's called free will God gives every person a choice to do what they want in this world he knows what that choice is going to be but then he still lets them make their own choices. He provided a way to come to Him. But He'll never force them to choose for Him.
Omniscience means that at all times all possible and impossible knowledge about everything, past, present and future is simultaneously available. An omniscient creator would have that knowledge before starting to create anything. He would know how each and every being of his future creation would think and act in any given situation. And if this creator then, with that omniscience, creates a universe in which he knows what will happen at any given time, then yes... Calvinism is spot on. Your god would have known exactly what you'd do before he started creating anything. And he'd have thought about (maybe) and would have thought "Sure... Hitler, Trump and Covid sound like a great ideas. Let's create it this way!"
The concepts of free will and an omniscient creator of everything are mutually exclusive. It's either or. Either your god knows everything, then there is no free will by the very nature of us as his supposed creation. Or we can do what we want and he doesn't know yet what it is... but then he's not omniscient.
The third option is of course that he simply doesn't exist.
But we've already had this debate here :)
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Re: Are they any Christians???

Postby Yukino114 » Fri May 07, 2021 3:32 pm

Allie88 wrote:
cacahuate86 wrote:
Forever for Him 2003 wrote:Yes very good thing to bond over!😂. I believe the world, Universe and all life began 6,000-7,000 yrs ago give or take 1,000 or 2,000 yrs. What about you?
There is nothing to belive. If we have observable, measurable data we already know. Our universe is 13.8 billion years old, the Earth is 4.54 billion years old, and life on Earth started at least 3.465 billion years ago.

Its also shocking that theres still a large number of people today believe that the earth is flat and dont even know that the map of the world as we know - is not a true representation of how large or small some countries are. Like African continent is far far bigger, Russia is a lot smaller and so on than represented on a pretty map... US and Canada are also not as large or vast as represented nor is Greenland.


Not going to lie, I did not know this. I am.... disGUSted
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Re: Are they any Christians???

Postby Allie88 » Fri May 07, 2021 3:35 pm

cacahuate86 wrote:
@Allie
See, this is what I mean. People just copy & pasting stuff from random websites.....


Oh i know... this is the worst. Back in college my classmate pranked me with an imaginary word on Wikipedia, obviously i struggled finding anywhere else i could find the word and dictionaries weren't helpful, and i tried so hard to understand it - his humor was lond in translation literally cause english isnt my 1st language so i kept just annoying him about what is that word, how to use it, why i cant find it elsewhere etc. Only through all that i realised he made the Wikipedia page himself with all fake references and all... Its so painful to look at and pretty much on same level as the new age stuff on chakras and sun power healing you from the inside...

Biggest issue is legitimate works are cited but in the wrong context. And this is what pisses me off the most, is that legitimate information is used in a way it is not meant to - supporting illegitimate and fake claims. Real research is cited to agree with falsehoods and made up garbage. Having faith is great - but hats all it should be. It should stop being peoples magical unicorn that vomits rainbows and shits diamonds - it cant do anything, it doesnt solve anything, it doesn't magically create things out of nothing - its just there as faith that maybe theres something when you feel there is nothing left and you cant find comfort in anything else. But even saying that, this faith never was or will be there for those reasons - its there for exactly what the purpose of it was when created - controlling masses, laying down the law, and so that people are forced into submission in the name of god.

Science never agreed with bible. Even Santra Claus didn't survive his 24 hours trip around the world lol. Honestly some of this shit is funny, some of it is sad..while majority literally gives me a headache... Sometimes i do wonder why even bother - why not let darwinism sort everything out. Might as well while were at it start printing less safety notices on coffee cups like one "contents maybe hot". And let people rely on common sense once again.
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Re: Are they any Christians???

Postby Yukino114 » Fri May 07, 2021 3:38 pm

Just going to say I have not studied at all how old the earth is and all that, but 7000 years old??? That just... doesn't make sense??
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Re: Are they any Christians???

Postby Allie88 » Fri May 07, 2021 3:48 pm

Yukino114 wrote:
Allie88 wrote:Its also shocking that theres still a large number of people today believe that the earth is flat and dont even know that the map of the world as we know - is not a true representation of how large or small some countries are. Like African continent is far far bigger, Russia is a lot smaller and so on than represented on a pretty map... US and Canada are also not as large or vast as represented nor is Greenland.


Not going to lie, I did not know this. I am.... disGUSted

Yeah, well when this was created it was to represent what the world was then, How powerful Russia, USA and other countries were. Interestingly enough also UK region was central on the map despite size (yes in reality it is also far smaller). But thats what it was - a representation which also skewed peoples view on certain parts of the world.

Its like how you create your own internal bias based on what you see and that is what the old map did, it skewed peoples perception on power, importance, social status - Russia is so big, wow they must have xyz. And Afrika is not that large knowing its mostly wild jungles - so it doesn't really matter as much - where as all of America, North and most of South would fit into the African continent in reality. I think its really fascinating and i am looking forward to seeing models of a more accurate "globe" since earth inst perfectly round either.
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Re: Are they any Christians???

Postby cacahuate86 » Fri May 07, 2021 3:52 pm

I dimly remember an episode of the West Wing where C. J. was baffled by this revelation of a politically motivated map.
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Re: Are they any Christians???

Postby Forever for Him 2003 » Fri May 07, 2021 3:54 pm

There's nothing else I can say. I mean I believe what I believe. And you believe what you believe. Unfortunately I'm not as brilliant as you are Cacahuate86. You're just too smart for me 😆
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Re: Are they any Christians???

Postby cacahuate86 » Fri May 07, 2021 4:01 pm

No, I don't think I am. I think you've made some very interesting points that I'll be thinking about for a long time.
It's not about convincing someone that your beliefs or my convictions are better or right. It's about understanding the depth and logic behind the other person's but also your own reasoning.
Now, I understand that religion and faith aren't about logic, but explanations from that angle still have to appear plausible to you to follow this philosophy, right?
So when I can understand why it makes sense to you, that's all I want out of a debate like this.
And you did that exceptionally well on many issues we've talked about. So, thank you!
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Re: Are they any Christians???

Postby Allie88 » Fri May 07, 2021 4:29 pm

Yukino114 wrote:
Allie88 wrote:Its also shocking that theres still a large number of people today believe that the earth is flat and dont even know that the map of the world as we know - is not a true representation of how large or small some countries are. Like African continent is far far bigger, Russia is a lot smaller and so on than represented on a pretty map... US and Canada are also not as large or vast as represented nor is Greenland.


Not going to lie, I did not know this. I am.... disGUSted

Yeah, well when this was created it was to represent what the world was then, How powerful Russia, USA and other countries were. Interestingly enough also UK region was central on the map despite size (yes in reality it is also far smaller). But thats what it was - a representation which also skewed peoples view on certain parts of the world.

Its like how you create your own internal bias based on what you see and that is what the old map did, it skewed peoples perception on power, importance, social status - Russia is so big, wow they must have xyz. And Afrika is not that large knowing its mostly wild jungles - so it doesn't really matter as much - where as all of America, North and most of South would fit into the African continent in reality. I think its really fascinating and i am looking forward to seeing models of a more accurate "globe" since earth inst perfectly round either.
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